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I have closed the forums to new postings because there was not enough discussion, I answered nearly all the questions, and I no longer work on Kino. Please use the forums provided by your Linux distribution. Meanwhile, I will leave this open in read-only mode to serve as a knowledge base.


Subject: "Isn't DV kind of...20th Century?" Previous topic | Next topic
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Top Linux Digital Video Kino Topic #3565
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rumplestiltskinWed Jul-29-09 06:43 AM
Member since Jul 29th 2009
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#3565, "Isn't DV kind of...20th Century?"


          

I'd love to see an MP4 NLE. If someone knows where a good one may be found (for Ubuntu 8.10) I'd appreciate a reply.

So far I've tried OpenMovieEditor and OpenSpot(?) but, frankly, they're not very stable. Z4S doesn't launch. Cinelerra can't handle H264 in sync.

The developers with whom I've spoken indicate that things would be better if QuickTime was available on Linux. Maybe I'll have to stick with my Mac for video?

  

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aavWed Jul-29-09 09:07 PM
Member since Jul 29th 2009
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#3566, "RE: Isn't DV kind of...20th Century?"
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Editing h.264 isn't ideal, because it's not a format meant for editing. Basically, like many other formats it's geared towards playback and optimizes the video for this. A given frame in the video will depend on what is in the previous/following frames. When you make edits, there will be quality loss because the frames around the edit have to be re-encoded, compounding the encoding artifacts.

DV, like Motion JPEG etc contain only I-frames so a given frame is independent of its neighbors on the timeline. This means you could e.g. throw all the frames in the video up in the air, reassemble them in random order, save out to DV file, then load it back in and restore the original order, then save out to a third DV file.. all without losing quality.

You could technically make an MPEG-2, MPEG-4 (divx/xvid/h.264) file which only uses I-frames making it easy to edit. But few people use those formats like that. Most files you will encounter are playback-optimized.

This is one reason there are few MPEG-4 editors. People just use other formats for editing.

  

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ddennedyFri Sep-04-09 05:02 AM
Member since Jun 26th 2006
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#3578, "RE: Isn't DV kind of...20th Century?"
In response to Reply #0
Edited on Fri Sep-04-09 05:03 AM by ddennedy

          

Yes, DV is rather dated, but it is still very relevant especially since it is very stable and there are many good tools for it. Quicktime is available for Linux - just not Apple's implementation. There are a few implementations for Linux.

I now work on MLT, the engine for OpenShot and Kdenlive, both of which can edit MP4. Neither of them are as stable as Kino because they try to handle all sorts of formats, resolutions, and framerates not to mention multiple tracks, etc. MLT is my answer for Quicktime as a subsystem similar to the role of it within Mac OS (as opposed to just as file format). MLT is quite stable for my commercial clients. The GUI apps have their fair share of code that needs more maturity. Both MLT and its GUI apps have a more intimidating set of functional problems that will take quite some time since the few of us working on them do not have a lot of time to dedicate.

Another popular subsystem is gstreamer for which there is the PiTiVi editor, which is rather low on features at the moment but growing. The subsystem for OpenMovieEditor is gmerlin, which is rather limited, so many functions are in the app. Cinelerra is monolithic but does use a lot of libraries.

Blender is also an editor and can support MP4. It is monolithic, but it does use FFmpeg libs just as all of the projects do. Maybe you can call FFmpeg the equivalent of Quicktime as a subsystem - I am not exactly sure what all Quicktime does. The other subsystems mentioned, MLT included, all vary in the amount of stuff they utilize of FFmpeg as well as add above and beyond FFmpeg.

+-DRD-+
Lead Kino Developer

  

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